A hard lesson but one which you've definitely learned from. Hey we each have our own lessons to learn - remember mine? Wahaha. :)
I'm sure things will turn out for the best regardless.
Babul
· 1 year ago
The startup would have been a great experience as they are really great people there and you would have learnt so much about many areas of the business and large-scale web app development and site scraping etc etc. which will not have been exposed to working in a larger company.
Talk to Ian and Pete and Michele as they are really nice people and will certainly understand your dilemma.
Money in the short term is not an important thing. Being in your early twenties you are able to take much more risk than in later life (especially with wife, kids, mortgages, steady job, etc. issues to consider) and you will always regret the things you never did than the ones you did do and which did not work out.
In any case, in the long term, working for yourself/small company that grows fast is actually better than working in other jobs both financially (unless you go into a front office role at an IB or at a PE firm, as you well know) and personally. This has been the experience of myself and most of the others I know who have started to do their own thing, and if you ask around you will find this to be true in your won network of friends.
Good luck Philippe, and if you need any help from me (assuming I am able to help), feel free to get in touch.
Babul
· 1 year ago
Sorry about the typos and semantic mistakes ("your won network" should be "your own network" etc.), but you get the gist
Zach
· 1 year ago
It's a tough lesson indeed. I learned this lesson long ago after making a mistake similar to yours. The truth is that there's nothing wrong with saying, "I am most certainly interested in this opportunity but I have to consider the financial logistics before committing. This is short term and as such, I'll need to ensure that I have something lined up once this contract ends..." The potential employer will understand and respect that 99 times out of 100.
Ethan Bauley
· 1 year ago
First, the "related" links above were disracting!
At any rate, I totally hear you. Relationships in early stage businesses are very tough to manage, especially if it's your first time in an early stage business. I had my first experience with that over the last couple years and definitely messed up a few things, hurt feelings, etc. But, as in your situation, the only time when things went awry is when there wasn't full transparency (nee honesty).
I felt hypocritical because I had said to myself and others that just relying on pure honesty/truth is always the best because it's also the simplest. It solves the question of "what to do". Funny thing is, it is harder said than done ;-)
Is it safe to assume we're talking about Songkick here?
I'm a master of deduction ;-)
Philippe Bradley
· 1 year ago
The specific companies are not relevant to the post - asides from the 'long term' one dragging its feet, they are largely faultless in the affair, so are totally irrelevant to the scenario (though the startup, by being open about its feelings in the matter, really helped in my understanding of what just happened - kudos). I wrote this mostly as a permanent reminder to myself of a lesson learnt the hard way, and partly in the remote hope that someone will avoid it entirely after reading this. This comment thread, full of wisdom, is an unexpected bonus.
I think your point about transparency being the simplest strategy is spot on. I'm reminded of the late John Peel's quote: "I don't know what people mean by âintegrityâ. Iâve always found it easier to tell the truth because that way you donât have to remember what youâve said. So, for purely practical reasons, it is the best thing." - I think the same goes for transparency. If you're not a bastard, by and large there should be no reason to not be clear about your actions and intentions. Oddly for me, that's usually a principle I stick to with ease - why I haven't applied it to this jobseeking process I haven't a clue.
But yes, it is easier said than done to tell a startup - that has and will be making sacrifices to extend you an offer to join the team - that you're soliciting other offers (though in this case, not necessarily mutually exclusive ones - but as a way of unlocking working for the startup, not as a replacement - though I'm not sure what I'd do if they conflicted; in the text I said I'd err towards the long view; maybe, maybe not). That's what I struggled with here, and failed to take the right course of action in response to the challenge.
[As regards the related posts, they're automatically generated, I have no idea what's coming up (I write this remotely) - apologies!]
Ethan Bauley
· 1 year ago
Very cool, I have seen that explanation of the benefit of transparency (reduced cognitive load) elsewhere.
I think you're the man for writing about this but it also is very personal so I'd be careful in the future about airing "dirty laundry" in the future. I don't think this comes even close to that line but I do think that merits being said for the record and your own benefit. Since we're being all "open and transparent"...
I'm sure you know what I mean ;-)
Philippe Bradley
· 1 year ago
Two primary decision vectors when deciding whether to hit the 'publish' button: a) Does it add value (i.e. does it avoid repetition of other material already generally available, and will anybody coming across it find it interesting or valueable?) b) Is it 'safe' - i.e. free (within reasonable bounds of probability) of negative repercussions for the writer or anyone associated with the text. In this case there's a chance of negative repercussions on myself, being a public, self-redacted slur on my own character, that may put others off wanting to work with me etc. But I'm aware of the threat, weighed it up and decided that its utility/potential value to myself as a personal 'scarecrow', and to readers in a similar situation - and the probability of getting some great comments that I would find useful - outweighs that risk.
Certainly other 'dirty laundry' situations I have seen others airing on the web would easily fail at least one (or even both) checkpoints.
gregory
· 1 year ago
one of the huge life-long lessons to learn for many people is the thing they call self confidence .. it has some elements to it, faith and trust that we will be taken care of is one of them ... glad you can share this stuff ... live fast die young is not a bad philosophy for many, you seem more bound to stable achievement, trust that is will happen
gregory
· 1 year ago
i am going to add one more thing ... the sufi phrase, it is written .. lots of wisdom in that, as is in the idea that everything is guru's , god's grace .... don't worry, be happy, it really does not matter
All Comments
I'm sure things will turn out for the best regardless.
Talk to Ian and Pete and Michele as they are really nice people and will certainly understand your dilemma.
Money in the short term is not an important thing. Being in your early twenties you are able to take much more risk than in later life (especially with wife, kids, mortgages, steady job, etc. issues to consider) and you will always regret the things you never did than the ones you did do and which did not work out.
In any case, in the long term, working for yourself/small company that grows fast is actually better than working in other jobs both financially (unless you go into a front office role at an IB or at a PE firm, as you well know) and personally. This has been the experience of myself and most of the others I know who have started to do their own thing, and if you ask around you will find this to be true in your won network of friends.
Good luck Philippe, and if you need any help from me (assuming I am able to help), feel free to get in touch.
At any rate, I totally hear you. Relationships in early stage businesses are very tough to manage, especially if it's your first time in an early stage business. I had my first experience with that over the last couple years and definitely messed up a few things, hurt feelings, etc. But, as in your situation, the only time when things went awry is when there wasn't full transparency (nee honesty).
I felt hypocritical because I had said to myself and others that just relying on pure honesty/truth is always the best because it's also the simplest. It solves the question of "what to do". Funny thing is, it is harder said than done ;-)
Is it safe to assume we're talking about Songkick here?
I'm a master of deduction ;-)
I think your point about transparency being the simplest strategy is spot on. I'm reminded of the late John Peel's quote: "I don't know what people mean by âintegrityâ. Iâve always found it easier to tell the truth because that way you donât have to remember what youâve said. So, for purely practical reasons, it is the best thing." - I think the same goes for transparency. If you're not a bastard, by and large there should be no reason to not be clear about your actions and intentions. Oddly for me, that's usually a principle I stick to with ease - why I haven't applied it to this jobseeking process I haven't a clue.
But yes, it is easier said than done to tell a startup - that has and will be making sacrifices to extend you an offer to join the team - that you're soliciting other offers (though in this case, not necessarily mutually exclusive ones - but as a way of unlocking working for the startup, not as a replacement - though I'm not sure what I'd do if they conflicted; in the text I said I'd err towards the long view; maybe, maybe not). That's what I struggled with here, and failed to take the right course of action in response to the challenge.
[As regards the related posts, they're automatically generated, I have no idea what's coming up (I write this remotely) - apologies!]
(reduced cognitive load) elsewhere.
I think you're the man for writing about this but it also is very
personal so I'd be careful in the future about airing "dirty laundry"
in the future. I don't think this comes even close to that line but I
do think that merits being said for the record and your own benefit.
Since we're being all "open and transparent"...
I'm sure you know what I mean ;-)
a) Does it add value (i.e. does it avoid repetition of other material already generally available, and will anybody coming across it find it interesting or valueable?)
b) Is it 'safe' - i.e. free (within reasonable bounds of probability) of negative repercussions for the writer or anyone associated with the text. In this case there's a chance of negative repercussions on myself, being a public, self-redacted slur on my own character, that may put others off wanting to work with me etc. But I'm aware of the threat, weighed it up and decided that its utility/potential value to myself as a personal 'scarecrow', and to readers in a similar situation - and the probability of getting some great comments that I would find useful - outweighs that risk.
Certainly other 'dirty laundry' situations I have seen others airing on the web would easily fail at least one (or even both) checkpoints.